(dramatic music) - [Narrator] This is a KSPS PBS Election Special, a debate featuring candidates for state senator from District 3.

- Hello, and thank you for joining us.

I'm Aaron Luna.

We are pleased to bring you this debate featuring the candidates running for the Washington State Senate in District 3, a seat formerly held by Andy Billig.

District 3 is located in the heart of Spokane, encompassing much of the city's downtown and surrounding neighborhoods.

Let me introduce the candidates to you.

Marcus Riccelli is finishing his sixth term representing District 3 in the House of Representatives.

He has worked for Chas Health for several years and is currently their community relations manager.

And this is Jim Wilson's first run for office.

He arrived here as a write-in candidate in the primary election.

He previously co-owned a business in the Tri-Cities for 10 years and currently owns his own real estate company here in Spokane.

Welcome to you both.

For this debate, the candidates will answer questions from two Spokane journalists, Amanda Sullender, a reporter for the Spokesman-Review, and Brandon Hollingsworth, reporter and host for Spokane Public Radio.

Before we start, a quick look at the debate rules.

The panel can ask the same question of both the candidates or can direct the question to just one.

The panelist may request a follow up to an answer.

Candidates will have one minute for answers and are allowed two rebuttals for the entire debate.

Rebuttal length is limited to 30 seconds.

Let's begin.

A coin flip determined that Representative Riccelli will take the first question, and that will come from Amanda.

- Representative Riccelli, you've served in Olympia for many years.

What do you hope to accomplish in the Senate that you didn't in the house?

What makes Senator Riccelli different from Representative Riccelli?

- Well, thank you.

And first, thanks to KSPS for hosting this.

A robust democracy can only exist with an active and engaged citizenry, so I appreciate the folks that are watching tonight and tuning in.

Look, I think we have a lot of challenges, and we're headed into a much more difficult budget year.

The things that I'm focused on are building more affordable housing, making sure that we are improving public safety.

I think we need to make sure that people have access to healthcare.

One of the things that Senator Riccelli would like to finish off is I've passed three bills to ensure that 2/3 of our students, including 100% of Spokane public students, have access to universal meals.

I'd like to make sure that every student has access to universal meals.

So a big focus of mine will be on those social determinants of health, making sure people not only have access to healthcare, but they can be successful and they can thrive regardless of the zip code they're born in or live in.

And so I look forward to working and finishing the job there.

- Thank you.

Jim, you came to this race last minute, as Aaron mentioned, and if elected, it'd be your first public office.

What would be your top priorities in Olympia?

- Change of direction.

You know, I look at what's been going on for the last 12 years in my life based on things that have been done in the legislature in Olympia, based on a budget that's doubled in size from $31 billion to over $70 billion, approaching $80 billion.

My life and the lives of most of the citizens in the third district has not improved as a result.

I think we're doing things the wrong way.

We need to have a new approach, we need to have some change, and it begins at the top with the leadership.

That's what I intend to do is change direction.

- But what would that new direction look like?

- Reprioritizing, prioritizing how we spend money, allocating funds for the people in most need and getting rid of programs that don't work anymore.

And there's a lot of those.

- [Amanda] Thank you.

- Our next question will come from Brandon, and this will be answered by Jim first.

- All right, thank you, Aaron.

As a lawmaker, you would have dual roles, one as a voice for Spokane and local interests in Olympia, but also as a key player for statewide rules, policies and regulations, the things that go far beyond Spokane and have statewide significance.

How would you plan to balance those dual roles in order to be productive on both levels?

- I think a lot of the things that we are experiencing here in Spokane and District 3 are similar to what other areas of the state are experiencing.

Tri-Cities, Yakima, Wenatchee, same types of things we're experiencing.

And when you go look at where I was from on the coast, I grew up just south of Tacoma, it's totally changed in the last 10, 15 years.

It's deteriorating.

Society is going the wrong way.

So we need to change those things.

I don't think it's a big, you know, leap of faith to understand what other people are going through, because we're going through the same thing here.

- [Aaron] Our next question will come from Amanda, and Representative Riccelli will have the first opportunity to answer - An important issue in Spokane is housing affordability.

Last legislative session, there was a bill limiting the amount landlords can increase rent each year.

If elected, would you support this proposal and how can the state make housing more affordable?

- So I do think we need to take a strong look at rent stabilization.

I think it's important.

You know, when I hear about seniors that because they are getting moved to month-to-month leases, that they're having to vacate their long-term place of domicile.

That really makes me upset.

I think we need to make more provisions.

Spokane led the way on the missing middle housing piece.

When Spokane moved forward, the state moved forward.

We need to make sure that people have more access to affordable housing.

I do think as chair of the House Healthcare Committee, housing stability is healthcare, and too many people are going without.

We need to build, build, build more affordable housing throughout our community and we need to make it easier for folks to build that affordable housing.

We also need to incentivize folks to develop housing.

And one of the things that I supported was commercial to residential incentives.

I think that's important.

I've supported and worked in a bipartisan way on condo liability reform so people can build equity and get into housing and have stable housing.

about housing affordability.

- Having been in the real estate industry for 37 years, over 37 years, looking at what's going on on the ground and real life because of the things that the legislature has done to impose regulations on new construction, and especially on new construction and multi-family housing, the idea of new construction, building for affordable housing is impossible.

It's not going to happen.

It's impossible.

What we need to do is be looking at existing housing, and look at those, and take some of the regulations off of the people who have one or two rental houses so they're able to keep their payments affordable for the renters.

Look at the things that go into a owner's payments.

There's taxes and insurance that are both pretty much regulated by the state, taxes by property taxes, but insurance, because of high crime rates, insurance rates go up, then rents go up.

- And Brandon, you have our next question.

- I'm gonna follow up on Amanda's general topic of housing and homelessness.

Focusing on homelessness, which we all know is, and has been for several years, a huge political as well as humanitarian issue in Washington.

This week, the state Commerce Department released a five year plan that it says would add affordable housing units, shelter beds, and greater coordination for homeless services.

They also said it's gonna cost $1.2 billion.

Do you, and this is a question for both candidates, do you back the plan the Commerce Department talked about this week?

And if not, what would you do differently?

- And Jim, we'll start with you.

- The issue with housing, or excuse me, homeless and the unhoused is not so much about housing as it is about programs to get people out of homelessness.

I don't believe homelessness should be a life sentence.

And we're building systems now from our government that are sentencing people to a homeless existence for the rest of their life.

We need a program, step-by-step programs, that are being run all over the country, not just Houston, but another place in Texas, Arkansas, and New York City, where they're getting great results.

And locally look at Union Gospel Mission and Family Promise.

You can't just get an individual sober, send them to a room and give them a key and say, "Good luck."

There's more to getting out of homelessness than just dollars.

You can't just write a check, that doesn't do it.

There's lots of steps that go in between getting from the bottom to back into society, and we're not doing that now.

- And Representative Riccelli, you also have one minute to respond.

- Well, I think we definitely need to expand treatment and services for people who are struggling with addiction, mental health issues.

One of the biggest issues I think we have is expanding our behavioral health workforce, so when people actually do want to access treatment, they have the opportunity to do so.

I think particularly we also need, and I do think, like, Family Promise is a great program.

I've worked closely with them to move families to sustainable housing.

But we're also needing to focus on some of our working poor who are just one paycheck away from becoming homeless.

We know once folks enter homelessness that it's very expensive.

They end up in the emergency rooms, they end up in our court systems, et cetera.

So I actually think we need to continue to focus on homelessness, but we also need to go upstream a bit for folks to see if we can, you know, help folks.

Maybe it's medical debt or a, you know, a bankruptcy from medical debt, or a broken down car that won't allow them to get to their job, that has landed them in an unfortunate situation.

I think we should intervene then.

- Amanda, our next question, - I'd like to ask you an issue that's at the top of voters' minds, which is public safety in Spokane.

What can you do in Olympia to make Spokane a safer place to live and work?

- I think we need to continue to offer tools to law enforcement so that they can do their jobs.

But I also think we need to make sure we have that expanded behavioral health workforce.

I think it's great that we have mental health professionals that are riding along with law enforcement, but law enforcement needs to be focused on stopping criminal activity.

We need more behavioral health providers and folks providing the kind of access to care, substance use, treatment, et cetera, to help intervene in a lot of those situations.

I also believe, yes, we need accountability, and we need places for folks to go who are repeat offenders.

And so that is something that sometime gets pushed back in my party, but I will say that people not only have to be safe, they have to feel safe, and it's important.

And I think we have a lot going for us in Spokane, but I think there's a lot of opportunity to continue to make sure that we're moving in the right direction.

- Thank you.

Jim, same question to you.

How do you make Spokane safer?

- We're going in the wrong direction, and that the legislatures pretty much directly responsible for almost encouraging criminals.

There should be a balance between civil rights and the victim's rights.

We've tipped that balance.

We've taken tools, you know, non-lethal tools off the belts of police and made their job almost impossible.

And we haven't really defunded them, but we've made their job harder.

Go talk to the police and see what they say.

It's going the wrong way because they're not able to do their job.

And it comes from Olympia.

The rules that are set up by Olympia are preventing the police from doing their job.

Spokane is the most dangerous, or excuse me, Washington is most dangerous state in the union.

We have the lowest per capita police force, police to population, than any state in the union.

This comes from the top.

- Representative Riccelli, you got a rebuttal to that.

- Yeah, look, I've worked to secure investments in law enforcement to address property crime and enhanced training.

I think I've built those relationships.

I'm a WACOPS award winner for some of the work I've done.

But let's be clear too, it also takes responsible leadership.

I think one way not to show that, one way to make sure we're moving in the right direction is not to do political stunts, like do graffiti violence or vandalism on public property.

So I just think there's two different approaches to common sense leadership.

And I bring people together and I have worked in a bipartisan way.

- Do you have a follow up question there or rebuttal, Jim?

Brandon, you'll have our next question.

- Certainly.

Freshmen come in with no seniority and little power.

And each of you in your way would be a freshman.

While Mr. Riccelli has served in the House, the Senate would be a new place for you, new environment, new chamber.

For Mr. Wilson, a first time office holder.

So you'd be coming in without a baseline of experience and without the connections that an experienced, seasoned lawmaker might have in exactly those ways.

And particularly for Mr. Wilson, you would be a member of the minority party in Olympia.

The question, and this is for both of you, how would you work to make your first term productive?

- [Aaron] Jim, we'll start with you.

- You know, I've been in business for, I won't tell you how long, a long time, and I've learned that I have to work with people from every phase of life, every creed, color, national origin, religion, it doesn't matter.

What I've found is that when you find a common goal and you can deal in a responsible manner, person to person, you find that you can reach your objective.

It's a mature way to do it.

What I hear voters telling me, and I've had the most liberal voters that I know and I have lots of friends that are liberal, come up to me and say, "I'm voting for you, Jim.

You know why?"

And I go, "No."

I said, they go, "Because I'm tired of the people in Olympia going like this and fighting and getting nothing done."

We need to come together in common sense, not power plays, deal with people who genuinely wanna make a difference.

And then I believe we can make a difference in moving our state forward.

- And Representative Riccelli, how would you make your first term in the Senate, in a new chamber productive?

- I'm feeling pretty confident I can hit the ground running.

I served in our house Democrats leadership team as the majority whip.

I was elected by my colleagues to serve as a chair of a committee.

But it's other things I've done.

I run a legislative basketball game that's bipartisan.

Really trying to find that common ground.

There was a recent story in the Seattle Times by one of my Republican colleagues, Hans Zeiger, who talked about the hikes that we organized for our under 40 caucus.

I'm not under 40 anymore, but at the time, to really build those relationships and bonds.

I delivered and prime sponsored a WSU Medical School working in a bipartisan way with Michael Baumgartner.

We now have five county commissioners, 'cause I worked with Republican Mike Volz, Senator Holy, and others to deliver.

So I'm confident I can hit the ground running.

I also believe that I will potentially find myself around a Senate leadership table even as a freshman.

I've been in discussions, and I think that's one way that I can make sure our Eastern Washington voice, not our Democratic or Republican voice, but our Eastern Washington voice gets heard statewide.

- Amanda, you have our next question.

- This November, voters will decide four important initiatives on the ballot.

One of them is a proposed repeal of the state's Climate Commitment Act, which caps the amount of carbon the state can emit each year.

How will you vote on this initiative, and what can the state do to address climate change?

- Representative, we'll start with you.

- I'll be voting no.

First, I think that it would provide a unfortunate hole in our budget to deliver services.

Third district is one of the most economically challenged districts in the state, and this is concerning to me.

It would allow more pollution across Washington and devastate funds to protect our air and our water.

You know, I coached soccer, and unfortunately we've had another season added out here, and that's called fire season.

And this would take away some of the funding for some of our most important mitigation efforts to stop fires.

It also could potentially blow a hole in our transportation budget.

I worked very hard to secure funds for the North Spokane Corridor, Bus Rapid Transit on Division, the Central City Line.

Some of these funds could be really in jeopardy.

So I think that's a bad deal for Washington, and I'll be voting no.

- [Amanda] Jim, same question to you.

- I'll be voting yes.

The reason is, is because the Climate Control Act brought in over $1.5 billion per year out of the state economy, in the coffers to the state budget.

But it's not being spent on areas that are really gonna reduce carbon emissions.

They have no way to measure it.

They don't have a specific goal, and they don't have have a way to measure to see if it's working or not.

But they exempt Boeing, which is one of the largest polluters that we have.

So I question the title.

Moreover, those taxes that were put on utilities and so forth have all been passed on to the consumers.

It's an indirect tax on the consumers, and the people that hurts the most are the most vulnerable people who sit on the edge of our society.

Now, I don't like to pay $4 for gas, but I can handle it.

A young family or a single mother at home with a kid or two, you have to decide between gas, rent, you know, utilities and food.

It's not fair what we're doing to the lower people, the lowest class economic people in our society.

- Brandon, you have the next question, - And this will be a two-parter, just like Amanda's question earlier on, because there's a slightly different way to phrase it for both of you.

And we'll begin with you, Jim.

In another debate that was taped in this studio this week, Tony Kiepe, who's running for a legislative seat, but in the House in the same district, said he would need 6,000 Democratic votes to succeed.

It is a Democratic leaning district, has been for quite some time.

What are you doing to appeal to the Democratic voters you would need in order to prevail in this race?

- Speaking the truth from my heart.

If people genuinely care about what's going on on the ground, if they genuinely care about the homeless, if they genuinely care about people who are living on the edge, they're not gonna do things like raise property taxes or do an indirect tax so that gasoline is more expensive.

That's just silly.

'Cause I'm talking about common sense stuff.

We've had this homeless problem, and it's getting worse and worse and worse every year.

How many chances did we give the team who's been running the system for 40 years?

It's time for a change.

This is common sense.

There's an old saying that, you know, if you do keep doing things over and over and over and expect the results to be different, it's the definition of insanity.

If we keep electing the same people with the same promises who give no results...

I wanna see that different.

- And for Representative Riccelli, the corollary question is, while it may be a Democratic leaning district, it's not 100% Democratic.

There are thousands of Republican voters.

What are you doing to appeal to them, and if you were elected, to represent people who didn't vote for you?

- I think a lot of the issues that I'm talking about are not Republican or Democratic issues.

People need access to healthcare.

Right now the cost trend for healthcare is not sustainable.

People are being strapped with medical debt.

They're not having primary care access.

These are the issues that hit home with folks.

People want to see their kids.

They don't have to stay in Spokane, but they wanna see opportunities for all kids to thrive, so we need to work on educational and workforce opportunities.

I think it's really important that we focus on more CTC training and apprenticeships.

In my opinion though, people at the doorsteps, what they want to hear is somebody who's authentic, who will deliver for them.

And if you look at the track record, whether it be the seniors at Corbin Center asking for an elevator, to make sure we get that funding, whether it be, you know, working with our local nonprofits like the YMCA or YWCA to deliver on their capital priorities, or working on big initiatives like healthcare access and bringing a WSU medical school to Spokane against all odds to make sure we can train homegrown doctors right here.

- [Aaron] Do believe we have the time for one more question.

Is there a question you'd like to elaborate on or something else you'd like to ask either these candidates?

- I was hoping you could touch on, Senator Riccelli just spoke on it, but what policies specifically do you hope to get past the next session regarding healthcare affordability and access?

- Well, there's a federal bill enacted that says, you know, that looks at cost containment.

I think we should put that statute, because it's not being enforced in our state and across by federal government.

So I would like to see us put in statute cost containments around healthcare controls that are healthcare costs that are way out of line.

And we need more people that are not showing up the ERs that are going upstream in our primary care.

And I would like to take a second to say something too.

I do think, I wanted to applaud my opponent for being a write-in and getting on the ballot.

I think this is a four-year term.

This is serious stuff, and we need a robust debate.

So I just wanna take a moment to thank him for engaging in community.

There wouldn't be a debate today if he wouldn't have qualified the ballot, and this community deserves that debate.

So I appreciate you qualifying.

- And same question to you, Jim.

How can the state improve healthcare access and affordability?

- Again, the state has made regulations, for example, demanding that the people, the companies that provide healthcare to our state do certain things.

And in doing that, they've decreased the number of available healthcare providers, leaving only a few, enabling them to raise their prices.

Lack of choice has made healthcare affordability way less for the average citizen.

And from the other end, boy, if I have time to do this, this is a complicated thing.

The state has not raised reimbursement for providers in over 12 years.

Providers are not required to take Medicaid patients, who are the most vulnerable in our society.

Instead, they try to take full pay clients, patients.

They're not able to do that on a sustainable level.

And hospitals like Sacred Heart and private physicians are running out of revenue.

They need to find other options, and the state needs to help that.

So there are more healthcare- - Jim, that is your time.

We have a rebuttal from Representative Riccelli.

You can also, Jim, use your rebuttal once he's finished.

- Yeah, I just, you know, I wanted to go further a little bit.

So we passed a prescription drug affordability board in our state.

It only can look at a certain number of drugs.

I think we should expand that.

I think there's one issue that is not at all partisan.

People know prescription drug costs are rising outta control and people are getting gouged.

We also have pharmacy benefit managers who are the middle people who are in there gouging consumers.

The other piece is, I agree that we need to raise reimbursement rates, and we need to provide more access.

That's why I passed the bill to allow PAs to move to collaborative practice so they can offer primary care.

- [Aaron] Jim, 30 seconds for your rebuttal.

- This has been going on for years.

So if we just, you know, put forth a bill to handle this now, what have we been doing for the last 12 years?

These problems aren't new.

They're getting worse.

And this is what I'm saying.

Things are getting so bad now, when are we gonna change?

We need to change now.

Not promises of what we're gonna do after we've been in office for 12 years and haven't done them.

Now is the time to change.

- Jim, thank you.

And that will have to be the last question.

At least that's the most amount of time we have for now.

We wanna go now to closing statements, and Representative Riccelli, you will go first in this one.

- Yeah, thank you.

Well, thanks for hosting this debate.

It's been an honor to serve as your state representative, and I'm looking to build on my track record and continue to deliver for Spokane, the state Senate.

I'll continue to work on improving public safety, building more affordable housing, creating jobs, and ensuring all kids have the opportunity to thrive regardless of the zip code they're born in.

Running for office is a job interview, and I ask you to examine my work on behalf of the community.

I increased access to healthcare by passing legislation to create a WSU medical school to train homegrown doctors right here in Spokane.

I helped negotiate a transportation package that provided significant investments in the North Spokane Corridor, Central City Line, Division Bus Rapid Transit, and the U District pedestrian bridge.

I expanded our county commission to five commissioners so people could have more representative government.

2/3 of our students in Washington will now have universal meals.

They now have universal meals, and that's 100% of Spokane public school students.

There's a lot more work to be done.

I'm ready to take on this challenge and fight, and I ask for your vote.

- [Aaron] Jim, you have a minute as well.

- I am not a career politician, but this is the first time in my life when I can honestly say that I see every segment of our society failing, struggling at the same time.

Nobody's winning.

It's easy to see the guy camping on the corner or laying in the gutter after he smoked his crack or whatever it is.

We don't see all the crime and homeless problems in the behind the people behind the doors, but I guarantee you, I can show you their police reports of violent crime.

You go into a grocery store today and everything's locked up because the amount of theft.

And even the people who run the stores and the businesses, they're on the edge.

There's an old saying, when you find yourself in the bottom of a hole, quit digging.

The longer we wait to quit digging, the harder it's gonna be to get out of this hole.

I want real change and I obviously will step up and voice my opinion and make change if I can.

I'm Jim Wilson.

I'm running for state senate in the third district.

I appreciate your vote.

- And that will do it for this debate.

Our thanks to each of our candidates, as well as our journalists, Amanda Sullender and Brandon Hollingsworth.

This and other KSPS debates are available for viewing any time at ksps.org For all of us at KSPS PBS, thank you for watching.

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