This is a KSPS PBS election special.

Candidates Michael Baumgartner and Carmela Conroy debate who should become Eastern Washington's next representative in Congress.

From the Myrtle Wilson Performing Arts Center on the campus of Gonzaga University.

Produced in cooperation with The Spokesman Review, the Black Lens, Hello.

Thank you all for being here tonight.

My name is Emery Dinman.

I'm, the Spokesman.-Reviews Spokane City Hall reporter.

And in the closing days of this election cycle, I'm thrilled to be able to present today's debate and the race between Michael Baumgartner and Carmella Conroy to represent Eastern Washington in the House of Representatives.

Miss Conroy won a coin toss backstage and chose to, give the final closing statement, which means that Mr. BBaumgartner will answer the first question first.

Mr. Baumgartner also chose to stand at the podium on my left.

You've already been familiarized with the rules of tonight's debate.

twice now it sounds like.

But here's a third time.

to recap, each candidate will have 60s to answer a question, followed by 30s each for rebuttal or to expand on the earlier answer, I may ask for a follow up.

in which case each candidate will have another 30s to answer because we have a lot of ground to cover.

I'd like to ask the audience to please avoid any disruptions and to applaud only two times tonight, at the end of the debate.

And now, as we welcome the candidates to the stage.

We're going to start, with a pretty broad opener.

Mr. Baumgartner, you were a state senator for eight years and have most recently served as county treasurer since 2019.

Mrs. Conroy, you served as a diplomat and foreign service officer for 20 years, and chaired the county Democratic Party for a year.

Why are you the best candidate for the seat?

I'll be starting with you, Mr. Baumgartner.

Well.

Thanks, everybody.

I want to start by thanking our host, Gonzaga University.

You know, I went to Washington State University, for undergrad, and then, Gonzaga, Harvard for my masters.

But in between, I spent a year with the Jesuits in Mozambique and, the beloved father Mike Shultice, who is based here, Gonzaga.

And, I very much appreciate this debate.

You know, I think over the last 14 years of elected office, our community in eastern Washington has known me, come to know me as someone who delivers results, whether it was getting the new medical school for funding from the north south freeway, the only tuition cut in American history.

You know, I'm someone that knows how to work in a bipartisan fashion.

And you look at the challenges that America faces now from rampant inflation drugs in our community and unsecure southern border.

We need folks who are problem solvers that have a demonstrated ability to get results.

And I think if you look at me between the candidates on offer, I think you know who you can trust.

Miss Conroy.

Thank you.

Emery.

Thanks, everybody who's here in the audience with us today, as well as watching from home and to Gonzaga, the Spokesman-Review and CSPs.

We really are blessed in this community to have local journalism, and it's an essential part of our democracy, and I really appreciate it.

I grew up in Spokane.

I'm the third generation of my family to have been raised in Eastern Washington.

I'm a third generation union member.

my grandfather was a Union mason.

He worked on the Grand Coulee Dam.

My grandfather was a union railroader.

He started with the Great Northern Railway and it was the BNSF.

By the time he retired 43 years later.

Dad was also in the Air Guard, right out at, Fairchild and Geiger Field.

I also have 30 years, almost 30 years of public service experience under my belt.

Four years of that.

I was a deputy prosecutor right here in Spokane County under Don Brockett.

And initially, Miss Connor, I think.

Thank you.

That's.

Oh, sorry.

Ran out of time.

60s goes by quick.

It does.

we turn now to the economy.

The coronavirus pandemic upended the global economy and led to higher prices.

After peaking at over 9% in the middle of 2022, inflation has cooled to 2.5%.

And recently, the Federal Reserve cut interest rates for the first time in four years.

But Americans average wages still haven't caught up to inflation.

As a member of Congress, how would you address the changing economy and the higher cost of living?

The economy?

We'll start with you.

So when the when the pandemic initially broke out, I was still in service and I was living and working in Yokohama, Japan, and the cruise ship that had been turned around from Hong Kong because there was Covid on board and was returned to Japan, was visible from my office in Yokohama.

There were about 250 Americans on board that ship.

Some of them had been stricken with Covid, and my colleagues at the consular section at Embassy Tokyo negotiated for those Americans to get treatment.

And when doctors from the US National Institute of Health said that they, would have expected people to have died if they'd been an American, treatment centers.

I understood that we needed to look for more than just domestic solutions to our problems.

We've solved inflation, but it's still a big affordability issue for everybody.

And, Mr..

Thank you.

Yeah.

Mr. Baumgartner.

Well thank you.

You know, inflation has eased, but prices are so much more expensive than they are now.

You know, my wife and I, we met in Afghanistan.

We now have five young children.

And we see every day when we go to the grocery store, we just how expensive it is, to live.

and we have it pretty well because we're one of those folks, those couples that actually own our own home.

And we have some investments in the stock market.

But if you're a renter right now that can't get onto the housing ladder and you're someone that doesn't have investments, this inflation is just crushing you.

the first step that, Congress needs to take is to rein in some of the reckless spending that is causing this inflation.

And there can be steps right now to reduce regulations that are causing price increases.

You know, in our state, our state, for example, over $150,000 of the price of a new home is strictly because of wage and labor rates or regulations that come from Olympia.

So that's a local example.

But there are examples all across the country where the federal government can take steps to bring prices down by reducing regulation.

Miss Conroy, you have 30s to follow up.

We are still struggling with affordability, and Republicans will often say that it's because of government regulation or because of reckless spending.

But they never have an idea of what they're actually going to cut.

What the government could help do is make housing prices more affordable by making making loans available at lower prices, even for people buying condos, so that people buying multifamily homes or builders building multifamily Hornes homes would have access to the cheap credit that they need to get this economy really booming again.

Mr. Bumgardner, you.

Yeah.

One area reckless, spending.

We could cut the federal government.

And I have a background in doing that.

In the state Senate.

I worked with then Governor Gregoire in a bipartisan fashion to take five government agencies that we didn't need consolidate them into two.

But an example of something we could cut at the federal level is TSA.

the airport security does not need to be a federal agency.

after 911, we were very concerned.

what we needed to do was put steel doors on airports and have better intelligence about who's trying to harm us.

But creating a new federal bureaucracy was not a great step.

So I would privatize TSA.

Thank you.

We turn now to student loans.

we will have a question on the screen from the editor of The Black Lens, April Everhart.

Hi.

My name is April Everhart, and I am the editor of The Black Lens.

Today, this is my question.

According to the U.S. Department of Education, students of color are more likely to have taken out federal student loans in order to pay for college and are more likely to report that their student debt has caused them a high amount of stress later in their lives.

How would you mitigate this disproportion burden, and would you support debt relief, whether targeted or widespread?

Thank you, Mr. Baumgardner.

We'll turn to you.

Yeah.

The cost of college has just become outrageous, in America.

And we should start by what should be the price of college tuition.

College tuition should be priced at a level that doesn't require anyone to go into debt.

It should be at the price that you can work a summer job and do some part time work, during the year and afford college.

That's how it was when I went through school, is one of the reasons, when I was in the state Senate, that we had groundbreaking legislation to reduce the price of college at our public universities by 15%.

we do need to solve this debt crisis.

It's not fair what's happened to kids, but we need to do it rather than force feeding.

student loans, federal government loans, into 18 year olds because they're with an 18 year old.

They don't know the difference.

With $600 in debt and $6,000 a debt.

What we do do is bring the prices down of, college courses.

We also have too much bloat in college.

We have way too many bureaucrats.

We have too much of a country club atmosphere, in our universities.

And so if we bring down costs, people don't have to take out those loans.

And we can all benefit.

Thank you, Miss Conway.

For anybody who's a first generation of their family to go to college like I was, it's really scary to know how to make your choices with respect to what school to attend to, how much money to take on, how much debt to take on.

And we can do a better job of making things easier for families and for first time students to understand how these things work.

One thing would be to stop federal money and student loans going to any place other than accredited schools.

We've got terrible, diploma mills, like the former Trump University that would pick students pockets just as long as they could afford to keep getting loans instead of places like Washington State University or Gonzaga University, where if you can't cut it, you'll stop going to school there and they'll stop taking your money.

we should also make federal loans and grants available, not just for students who 110 for your universities, but also for community colleges, which is a great stepping stone to tech schools and apprenticeship programs that give people skills to get out into the job force quickly.

Mr. Baumgartner, you have 30s to follow up, and I'd like to to stress, you spoke to costs for future students, but what what, if anything, should be done for existing student loan debt?

I do not approve of of wiping out, federal student debt.

Those were loans that were taken by by folks in good faith.

They need to be paid back now, when moving forward, we can bring down the costs.

And as someone who used to be the vice chair of higher education committee, the state senate, I'm very committed to helping college students.

I would also put a plug in for, community colleges and trade schools.

you know, what happens at universities is universities use first and second year students to fund universities.

And they over enroll, and sometimes they use them as a cash cow for the rest of university.

But I just encourage folks to look at the lowest cost non debt option, for when they go to college in this country for existing student loans.

We need to take a look and make sure that we have honored the conditions on the government side of those loans.

We know that the government, the Department of Education, during the last administration contracted out to the for profit companies, the the collection of those debts and in many way in many cases, they essentially cheated students who were going into public sector jobs out of the debt relief that they were entitled to.

So we need to make those systems transparent and not profit off of the people who are trying to achieve the American dream.

Thank you.

We turn now to the national debt.

The United States national debt has surpassed $35 trillion in the current fiscal year.

The federal government has spent about 1.9 trillion more than it has collected in revenue.

And we haven't had a balanced budget since the turn of the 21st century.

How concerned are you about our nation's debt and what should Congress do about it?

This country?

The turn of the 21st century sounds like such a long time ago, but 24 years doesn't seem all that long ago.

There's good debt.

And there's bad debt, right?

There's good debt like you take out to get a mortgage so that you can buy a home and create generational wealth.

And then there's bad debt, like, putting a brand new stereo system on your, your credit card.

And if you've got the money to, to pay for that credit card, that's just fine.

Put anything in your man cave that you want to.

But when we're running the federal government, we need to think about our investments in our future.

That includes, in our in our national defense, in making sure that we can adapt to and respond to climate change, which is happening now, and, and making sure that our young people are healthy and happy and getting the education that they need to succeed going forward.

And in our open market, and inclusive economy.

Thank you, Mr. Baumgardner.

Yeah.

The national debt is an extreme concern.

You know, $35 trillion, is not fair to future generations.

It's un-American.

And, Congress needs to do better, and it's going to take a bipartisan approach, to do better.

You know, the eight years I was in the state Senate, I participated in seven balanced, bipartisan budgets that didn't rely on tax increases.

So it is possible at the national level as well.

You know, the Covid shutdown was really the worst of all worlds.

You know, we shut down the economy, stopped economic productivity, and then flushed the system with, a lot of reckless spending.

So we both had, no economic growth, and we had an immense amount of debt added to the rolls.

We need to get the economy going again.

We need to, under this on the growth side, we need to return to producing more American energy.

We need to reduce those regulations that jumpstart our economy.

And then on the debt side, it's going to take a bipartisan approach.

Right now we have two presidential candidates.

Quite frankly, neither of them are running on debt responsibility.

And so it is going to take a president that wants to have that conversation with the American people.

But when I get to Congress, I'll be ready to participate in that as well.

This country of 30s.

It's up to the House of Representatives to set a budget.

It's not up to the presidential administration, and the current leadership of the House of Representatives decided to take an extra long summer vacation instead of doing things like passing a budget and a farm bill.

it spent time earlier this year cutting enforcement funding to the IRS, which would have brought in billions of dollars from tax cheats.

Had we been able to enforce the laws that are on the books against the people who were scoffing at them and could afford to because the IRS couldn't go after the the most, the richest of the tax cheats?

Thank you, Mr. Baumgartner.

30s.

Yeah.

You know, there was in American history when it became, tough for bipartisan, challenges.

There were things like the, base closure Commission.

I remember under President Obama and he put together the Simpson-Bowles commission to kind of have a bipartisan approach.

I think that's what it's going to take as well to this debt issue.

we all know how political campaigns like to scaremongering, when, when folks are running for office and there's a little bit of paralysis that issue.

I certainly do not think that we need to cut our entitlement programs.

for those folks on Social Security, Medicare, I'll be, fighting to protect those, programs.

But moving forward, yeah, $35 trillion in debt.

We have to do better as a Congress.

Thank you.

Mr..

I'd like to ask a follow up question to that.

in 12 years ago, the last time you were running for federal office, you did recommend, means testing for Medicare and other entitlement reform.

Do you no longer hold this position?

No.

I've walked back to that position.

You know, in 2012, we were trying to address it in a bipartisan fashion.

I thought there was, some chance of that.

You know, in that election, you know, Paul Ryan was, a serious budget guy at that time.

And, I remember the Democrats putting him in TV commercials, shoving granny in a wheelchair off a cliff, and it sort of made it, politically palatable.

it is an issue that's going to have to be addressed, you know, in a bipartisan fashion.

we'll be ready to address it.

You know, it is it's not difficult to create balanced, bipartisan budgets.

we've done it repeatedly in our state Senate.

I was the vice chair of the Ways and Means Committee, and I'll be committed to helping make that, possible at Congress as well.

Thank you.

Miss, on this point.

Mandatory spending program.

A mandatory spending on programs like Social Security, Medicare and other health care programs make up around half of federal spending.

Do you believe entitlement reform is necessary?

And if not, how do you recommend balancing the federal budget?

I well, I don't like calling it entitlement reform because people worked for those benefits and they earned them by paying into that system over their entire career.

So it's not an entitlement or some sort of a handout.

It's something that people earned.

We can do things like scrap the cap so that the high income folks who are getting above $168,000 a year, hundred and $62,000 a year, continue to pay into Social Security, and that would sustain our Social Security programs for all workers, for the foreseeable future.

And so, thank you.

We will be turning now to the Affordable Care Act.

We have a question on the screen from a Gonzaga student.

My question for you today is many impoverished and underserved neighborhoods face substantial environmental problems, from pollution and climate change that negatively impact community members health and well-being.

What would you do to address these problems, including the impact on urban areas from worsening heat waves?

Thank you.

I apologize, it seems that we've gotten the recorded questions out of sync.

that will be you, Mr. Baumgartner.

Well, you know, I think, when we're done with climate change, we need to be science based.

My father was a professor of forestry at Washington University, a natural resource scientist.

So, I grew up in a in a family of scientists.

you know, one thing is that our state is poised to do is to embrace improvements in clean hydroelectricity and clean, nuclear energy.

you know, there are many micro nuclear power stations already operation the U.S. government.

You know, there are a lot of them are on our Navy ships.

but through Hanford, we have a great ability to implement, new power stations across the country, that can produce clean, reliable power.

You know, because of the scares, a three mile island and some outdated technologies, you know, the has really walk back from nuclear, but, it is an area where we can invest, be a global leader, have, renewable, clean energy and at a low and safe, low cost and in a safe way may miss Conroy.

But climate justice is also a real issue.

And this is something where federal local government partnerships can make a big difference.

We've seen that here in Spokane, where the climate program found out that there were urban heat pockets where underserved neighborhoods didn't have the trees to help create cool in the summertime.

And some federal money came in and we've been able to implement it with volunteers, including me.

I was out digging holes to to put urban trees into, and we need to take a look at those of us who've been the members of our community, who've been underserved, who are more most at risk for heat and cold.

climate impacts here, as well as for farmers across the district who are not going to be able to adapt to climate change on their own.

And the investment in climate adaptation programs that many of our farmers are taking advantage of is a prime example of using local knowledge and local awareness with federal funds to bridge the scientific knowledge gap.

Thank you.

Mr. Baumgartner 30s.

Yeah.

You know, one of the big problems we have in our community for all areas but critically underserved is the, you know, the threat of smoke and wildfires in the summer.

One of things the federal government can do, and I spent two summers on fire research teams when I was, with the U.S. Forest Service when I was in college.

is, we need to harvest more trees.

We need to bring down our fuel load, because of all the fire suppression, with our forest fires in the last hundred years, we have more trees, more fuel growth than than we should have in our forest.

And if we, further harvest our forests, we can bring down the fire danger and have less smoke.

Thank you, Miss Conroy.

30s, with respect to nuclear power.

We've got, Hanford still being one of the largest, largest, cleanup sites in the country.

That still has to be done.

And so when we move, if and when we move into nuclear power, we need to make sure that we use the the just the same zero tolerance for error, level that we have in the U.S. Navy with our nuclear powered ships and boats.

with respect to hydropower, keep our dams, make sure that they run to serve everybody that needs them, including in ways that support our tribal treaties.

Thank you.

We turn now to unions.

According to Pew Research.

Union membership has fallen by half over the last 40 years.

A number of states have passed right to work laws that have weakened the collective bargaining power of unions in those states.

Mr. Baumgardner, you once introduced a bill to make Washington a right to work state.

A federal bill introduced in 2019, referred to as the Pro act, would supersede these state laws and end right to work status in these states.

If elected, would you support the Pro act and do you believe unions have too many or too few protections to organize?

Miss Conroy, I would absolutely support the Proact.

about two weeks ago, I was in Seattle, talking with machinists on the strike line at Boeing.

And those machinists were striking for exactly the right reasons.

They believe that Boeing had stopped listening to its workers who could see, safety issues as they were cropping up, that it's quality assurance that it's its accountability to the public.

had fallen short in the pursuit of profits.

And so we should absolutely protect workers rights to negotiate for better, better, safety conditions, for better benefits, to claw back the pension benefit that they gave up in the last, the last time the Boeing workers went on strike because they wanted their company to succeed, and they were willing to make a sacrifice to do so.

And at that time, then Senator Baumgardner tried to strip workers rights away from every worker in the state.

Mr. Baumgardner yeah, you know, unions are great.

They should just be optional institutions.

You know, it's just un-American to force, folks to join any organization in order to have a job.

my mother and, was, a long time, teacher, 43 years as a teacher in the teacher's union.

my grandfather worked for General Motors.

there's a lot of union members in my family.

My personal philosophy is it ought to be optional, whether you want to be in there or not.

the proact just, you understand, would significantly drive up your costs on public infrastructure projects across the country.

So if you're concerned about $35 trillion in debt, if you're concerned about the taxes that you're going to have to pay to fund those public projects, or if you're concerned about the lack of economic growth in jobs, the proact would be a detriment to all those things.

So be extremely costly and I do not support it.

Thank you, Miss Conroy.

30s.

I just think it's really ironic when those of us who are competing to take a government job that will offer spend offers, a pension and insurance benefits and paid time off and paid medical leave if our family members get sick, would deny that from other workers in the private sector.

I've been a worker all my life.

I came from a working family, and I will do everything I can do to make sure that workers are protected and can continue to do their jobs safely and have a secure and respectable retirement when they finish their labors.

Mr. Baumgartner yeah.

again, nobody's attacking anyone's benefits.

you know, the question regarding the Proact at the federal level would take away the ability of state legislators to make the right laws and business regulations, at the local level.

And so it's an inappropriate, use of federal government authority, and it would be something that would significantly harm the American economy.

Significantly, likely increase your taxes and significantly increase the debt in the future generations are going to have to face.

We need more infrastructure in this, in this country.

We don't need to jack up the price of that infrastructure.

Thank you.

We turn now to another recorded question.

Hi, my name is Kelly Carmichael.

I'm a student here at Gonzaga University.

And this is my question.

The Affordable Care Act has faced continued challenges and criticisms, including a lack of hospital beds and rising costs of prescription drugs.

What changes, if any, would you propose to improve health care access and affordability for Washingtonians?

Thank you.

Mr. Baumgartner.

You know, when the Affordable Care Act was passed, you can think of two big problems in American health care.

One was access and the other was cost.

What the ACA did is it dealt with access before it dealt with costs and would be better if we could reverse that.

You know, very few of you, I dare say none of you know how much you actually pay when you go to the doctor.

There's very little price transparency.

There's very little incentives for you to have to have wellness in your health care decisions.

So when I get to Congress, if I get to Congress, if you give me that ability, I'll work on things that bring more price transparency and incentivize folks to make healthy decisions.

But another great thing that we need, because we need many more doctors and we need rural doctors.

You know, when my my most beloved pieces of legislation I worked on was the new medical school, the University of Washington, a 100 year monopoly on medical education.

We didn't have enough doctors.

They didn't want to give that medical education up.

But we ran the bill and beat them like the Cougs just beat the Huskies in the Apple Cup the other day.

And we got two medical schools now here in Spokane.

Spokane is now producing more doctors than they do in Seattle, and we need them.

We need more rural areas.

So that's another great, a great example of what can be done to get more doctors and bring cost.

Thank you.

This country.

So I would I would protect and expand the Affordable Care Act.

It's brought more than 11 million Americans into into insurance so that they can access health care.

I also would try to expand the number of of pharmaceutical medicines for which the government could negotiate the prices with the drug companies.

price transparency is a good thing, and I would support that.

But again, the Republican Party fought tooth and nail to keep the last Congress from reducing medical prices and and to keep the government from being able to to negotiate the prices for the most popularly used drugs for people on Medicare.

And so the government ought to be able to use its power in the market to negotiate the best possible prices, especially since the American taxpayers, in many cases, made the investment in the original R&D that allowed those drugs to be developed.

I also would make sure no matter what, that the ACA continue to cover preexisting conditions.

Thank you, Mr. Baumgardner.

Well, you know, I remember when my wife and I had our first child, 13 years ago at Sacred Heart.

And right before that, I met with the CEO of Sacred Heart at the time and asked, you know, no complications.

How much does it cost for someone to have a pregnancy?

you deliver a baby in your hospital.

And she couldn't answer the question because it depended on, what they had negotiated with the insurance companies.

And certainly the patients had no idea.

And there was no basic market mechanisms to provide people information on what choices to make as women that system.

So, we need do we need to introduce, just basic market mechanisms and price transparency would be a place to start discovery.

Unfortunately, as we've seen with the pharmaceutical medical companies, pharmaceutical companies end up with monopolies on the specific drugs, the lifesaving drugs, the life changing drugs that people need.

But with federal government intervention to keep those monopolies from from abusing their power.

We've now got insulin back down to a $35 amount a month phase.

We've got EpiPens back down to a reasonable price again.

And without the government making sure that the corporations don't cross over.

We're stuck.

Thank you.

We turn now to the topic of abortion.

For nearly half a century, the Supreme Court guaranteed a nationwide right to abortion, with states allowed to restrict the procedure later in pregnancy.

Now that the court has overturned those protections, what, if anything, should Congress do in response to this new reality for reproductive health care in this country?

Boy, Eastern Washington's rural communities, which were already struggling with access to to their clinics because they were shrinking and getting busier and busier, are now also facing the the challenge of taking care of the women and girls who are coming over from Idaho because doctors have fled Idaho clinics have closed in Idaho because of the draconian laws that were passed there.

After the Supreme Court issued its Dobbs decision, which reversed 50, 70, 80 years of privacy rights that had previously been recognized in the Constitution.

I definitely believe that the the Congress of the United States should restore, with national legislation, the right of women to make choices about their own bodies.

I do not believe that any level of government has the right to tell anybody what to do with their body prior to a baby's viability.

Thank you, Mr. Baumgartner.

Yeah.

You know, when I, joined the State Department, I raised my hand and sworn oath to the Constitution.

It's the same oath we'll take if we were elected to Congress.

And when I read the Constitution, it clearly says that things that are prescribed in the Constitution belong to the states.

I frankly just don't think that abortion was thought of by the founders.

I don't think this is the Constitution.

I think it's a state issue.

Now, I'm a pro-life Catholic, but I recognize that the state of Washington has very passive, abortion laws.

And in fact, in this state, the voters directly passed abortion laws before Roe versus Wade.

So I think it's a settled issue, largely, in the state of Washington.

And it's not one that I think Congress will have a large role in this country.

The same part of the Constitution that says anything not given to the federal government is reserved to the states and the citizens of the United States.

We the people, as individuals, have rights under our Constitution and for the Supreme Court to overrule 70 years of precedent after every single one of those justices said that they would follow precedent tells you just how corrupt that institution has become.

We the people, deserve our own rights to our own bodies.

A corpse in the United States of America has more rights than a woman or girl, depending on what state she lives.

Thank you, Mr. Bumgardner.

You know, one thing we can all agree on in a bipartisan fashion, from Congress, is to create support for young mothers, support for adoption, support for crisis pregnancy centers.

I think there's a lot of shared values there.

Even though people are divided on the question of abortion, you know, I'll look forward, if I do make it to Congress and trying to find those opportunities to support young families, it is really hard, to be, to have a young family right now in this economy.

And I know a lot of folks are scared, to have kids.

We need to do a better job as Congress and as a community in supporting these young families.

And we work on programs to do that.

Thank you.

I'd like to follow up.

Miss Conroy, you just mentioned, that you would not support restrictions prior to viability.

previously on the campaign trail.

You've said that you would not support, restrictions at any time in pregnancy.

Can you clarify your position?

Sure.

My personal position.

I also was raised in a Roman Catholic family.

but my mom and my aunts also let us girl cousins know that if we were at risk and we might die, that they would make sure that we were taking care of that.

The Catholic Church's teaching that if you have to choose between the life of the mother and the life of the baby, you save the baby's life was not something that we were going to abide by.

That ought to be up to every individual to make up their own mind.

Thank you themselves.

Mr. Bumgardner, specific follow up to you in 2012, you were on record as opposing an exception allowing abortion in the case of rape.

If in office, you were presented a bill that allowed abortion nationwide.

In that case, how would you vote?

Yeah, I don't know if that's completely accurate.

And just for what my opponent said, I'm not sure that's completely accurate.

Description of the Catholic Church's teaching on life issues.

but again, let me just reiterate, I believe it's a state issue.

I think there's very little role, for Congress.

this is not the animating factor of the reason why I'm running, for this job.

And when I get to Congress, I'll do what I can to support young families.

But I'd like to clarify, if that bill was presented to you, how would you vote on it?

Can you just tell me if a bill allowing, abortion nationwide in the case of rape was presented to you, if that exception was presented to you, how would you vote on it?

Well, I won't vote on any abortion legislation, because it's a role the state's, Excuse me, please note that.

No, no, no, please.

We turning now to foreign policy, miss Conroy, you spent 20 years, as we said previously, in the Foreign Service, as a diplomat, including over four years in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Mr. Baumgartner, you spent, over two years in Iraq and Afghanistan versus an advisor to the State Department and later a civilian contractor.

Given your experience overseas, what role do you believe the United States should play on the world stage?

Where do you believe we have met that goal?

And where do you believe we have fallen short?

Mr. Baumgartner, you said this one was one of the greatest honors of my life, to leave my private sector career and go to Iraq during the Iraq surge and work on counterinsurgency operations at, Embassy Baghdad.

I'd had the opportunity to join the State Department as a career State Department officer.

when I left, graduate school instead decided to do some different things.

The Middle East, but I have so much admiration for State Department officers.

I'm not a military veteran, but it was great to work alongside our members of the military.

And, I've seen the challenges of of being on the tip of the Spear of America, trying to install Jeffersonian democracy as a means to drain radical Islamic terrorism.

So that's not a realistic plan moving forward.

I also know that the world is a big, scary place, and we can't recede and be isolationist.

So we have to have a smarter, involved, military and security posture, but not one that has had the adventurism, I would say, of the last 20 years.

I think I'll bring a lot of skill set to that.

I'm very pleased by being supported by my, former boss, Ambassador Ryan Crocker, numerous ambassadors that I had worked for.

And I think, when I get to Congress, I'll be able to help bring a smarter foreign policy.

Thank you, Miss Conroy.

Thanks, Emery.

so I was a I was a Foreign Service officer for 24 years.

And, over that time, I, I worked in places like Afghanistan and Pakistan, as well as in strong allies like Norway and Japan and New Zealand and especially in places where there are challenges to their democracies.

I could see and in the way that people responded to our efforts, how important the United States example of democracy and with with an a government accountable to the people and our free economies, is to people all over the world.

If American democracy falls, other democracies in the world are not long behind it.

And so it's really important that we have respect for our electoral systems.

I respected who was elected in 2016 and in 2020, and I would not deprive citizens ability to vote their ballots in the easiest possible way because of my experience and theories, Mr. Baumgartner.

Well, just, you know, on the subject of the U.S. military posture in foreign policy, you know, we have some aging weapons systems.

we need to invest in our military.

right now, China is outpacing us, when it comes to building a Navy, in the Pacific, that's the greatest threat, that we're going to face in the next 10 to 20 years.

So we do need to upgrade our military systems.

We need to have better procurement, and we'd have a smarter foreign policy than we've had, in the last 20 years.

This country.

The United States military is roughly triple, has roughly triple the budget of the Chinese military, which is the second largest on the planet.

Chinese military is about triple the budget of the Russian military, which is the third most third best funded military on the planet.

The next 12 militaries after that are all allies and partners of the United States.

We have to stay current.

We have to say interoperable, interoperable.

And the best way that we guarantee our national security and our status on this stage is by maintaining and growing those alliances.

Mr. Baumgartner, I've gone twice, but I believe I, accidentally give them gave Miss Conroy another follow up.

So if you have something else that you'd like to add, like for the next question, we'll be moving on to Israel and Palestine.

Yesterday marked one year since Hamas and other armed groups from Gaza killed approximately 1200 people in Israel and took almost 250 hostages, nearly 100 of whom remain in Gaza to this day.

In the year since, Israeli forces have killed nearly 42,000 people in Gaza and displaced virtually the entire population of the territory, according to the United Nations.

While our country has provided a record $18 billion in military aid to Israel in the past year, what role should the United States have in that conflict?

Miss Conroy?

The United States, first of all, I, I want to take a moment just to acknowledge the terrible tragedy and and the losses of tens and thousands of lives, and on October 7th last year, I was with some friends of the Jewish faith.

And as the news broke out, everybody went to their phones and was absolutely ashen face, because they had friends and relatives who were taken hostage.

And some of them are still hostages to this day.

So the United States has to have a role of peacekeeper in the Middle East and continue to work with everybody who's serious about peace.

A sustainable peace in the Middle East requires a two state solution, and unfortunately, neither Mr. Netanyahu nor Hamas and the entire organization is in favor of a two state solution.

We need to get back towards that and get the hostages home.

Thank you, Mr. Baumgartner.

Well, I've spent a lot of time in the Middle East, been in nearly every country there.

First visited, the Middle East when I was in high school as a career scholar for the National Council on U.S. Arab Relations, and I'm someone that firmly believes that peace is possible.

they're all God's children.

They all deserve dignity, respect.

But I also know that the real step to do that is we have to make sure that Israel, the only democratic country in the Middle East, is strong and secure.

You know, what happened on October 7th was devastating and horrible, but it was really an action of the Islamic regime of Iran seeking to destabilize the region and use the Palestinian people as proxies to attack, Israel.

So, until that issue in Iran is dealt with, we're going to have continuing issues, whether it's Hezbollah in the north or the Houthis, in Yemen.

So it's going to be extremely important that America continue to be, involved in the Middle East.

And as we say, we're done with the Middle East, while the Middle East is not done with us.

And it's extremely important that America stand by Israel is a first step towards sustainable peace.

Thank you, Mr. Conrad 30s.

Yes, the United States has to back, the survival of Israel and withdrawing our security umbrella from Israel would lead to a broader regional war across the Middle East.

Unfortunately, the second Gulf War, created a terribly unstable situation.

And it removed a buffer zone between the Saudis and and the and the Iranians, which goes back to biblical times.

And we broke it.

We by it as the way Secretary Powell put it.

We've got to continue working for peace.

Mr. Baumgartner 30s.

Well, just I just, you know, I was I just I'll say this, I was pleased to join our Jewish community yesterday at a remembrance down the riverfront park.

And, as we honor those victims, it has been extremely concerning the rise of anti-Semitism in many communities across the U.S.. even when we were at the ceremony yesterday, there were folks coming by, screaming anti-Semitic Semitic slogans.

while we were in that remembrance.

And there are still Americans that are in those Hamas terror dungeons, and they're not less American just because they happen to be Jewish.

So we should all keep them in our hearts.

Thank you.

I'm going to be skipping ahead a question, to make sure that we get to, our next topic, which is immigration and the border.

Congress has failed to pass major immigration reform since 1986.

As a result, U.S law has not kept up with the changing reality on the ground and estimated 11 million people living in the country without authorization, despite an estimated 11 million people live in the country without authorization.

Despite playing critical roles in the US economy, including in Washington's agricultural industry.

And and since the pandemic abated, a record number of people have crossed the border illegally to claim asylum, beginning a legal process that can take years.

If elected.

What would you do to address immigration and the border in this country?

I would work with absolutely anybody who is serious about solving the problem.

There was a bipartisan bill that was, ready to go that was drafted by a Republican senator from Oklahoma and, the the Republicans in the House and in the Senate decided that they would not take that bill up because the then presumed Republican presidential nominee said that he didn't want it.

He wanted to be able to run on a problem rather than being interested in solving a problem.

I've been a problem solver for my entire adult life.

24 years with with the, State Department as a U.S. Foreign Service officer, which it's hard to get in.

Michael, maybe you could have done that, but, you don't know until you try and you didn't try.

So I would go in work with anybody willing to work with it.

Mr. Baumgartner, my opponent, said in a recent interview that his top legislative priorities beating Democrats.

I don't know how that fits into his country.

Thank you, Mr. Baumgartner.

Well, I had the opportunity to visit the border, a few months ago, and we went out with some Border Patrol agents at three in the morning.

And it was shocking what we saw.

Drug cartels brought a host of, migrant immigrants, to the border, and they walked right around where the the wall ends.

And they came in and they all declared that they were refugees.

And they entered in this U.S. government funded project.

That's now where they're going to claim to be refugees and have their adjudication, their status, adjudicated here in the U.S. and be released until they are.

So there are a lot of folks that are abusing our refugee, system.

And I see that as someone my wife and I have worked diligently to try to get some of our Afghan teammates there under threat by the Taliban here.

I've worked with refugees in Mozambique and other places.

But to solve this border issue, there is so much fentanyl that is coming over and destroying our communities to solve the border issue.

What we have to do is three things.

One, we have to return to remain in Mexico.

Two, we have to finish the wall in three, we have to look at steps like E-Verify so that folks are employed legally.

illegal migrants are great, but you cannot be a sovereign nation if anybody who wants to can walk into this country, including terrorists, it is a significant terrorist threat.

That border is open.

Miss Conroy 30s the border is not open.

And it would be more secure if we had more Border Patrol agents and and judges and other folks there at the border to process people swiftly so that the people we want to have them to build our homes, to harvest our foods, to provide our medical care, could come in and keep out the people who are who would commit crimes and and bring bad things with them.

We need to solve that problem.

I'll work with anybody interested in solving it.

I won't treat that and put party over country.

Mr. Baumgartner 30s sure, as respondents Linda Ramos and I'm not quite sure what the point she was making about the State Department.

You know, whether you're in the state Department, or not, is not super germane to anybody in Congress.

I could have been a State Department officer, passed the 100.

I had two, one eight, 100 slots.

It wasn't the right move for me.

I was, received a commendation when I worked with Ambassador Crocker, during the Iraq surge.

I'm very proud of your service, and I acknowledge it.

Hopefully you would acknowledge my service as well.

So I'm not quite sure what that comment entail.

Thank you.

We will be turning now to what I believe will be the last question before closing statements that we have time for tonight.

It's another recorded question, here on the screen.

Hello, my name is Cooper, and I'm a Gonzaga student.

And here's my question.

This year in King County alone, more than 76% of drug related deaths have been attributed to opioids and stimulants.

What would you do to diminish the rate of fentanyl related deaths in this county, and provide support for those affected by the crisis?

Why do you believe your policy is more effective than your opponents?

Thank you, Mr. Bumgardner.

Yeah, fentanyl is such a scourge at, you know, a dollar, a pill.

And, before I went down to the border, I talked to, sheriffs and law enforcement all across our region.

And, every single one of them said is their top law enforcement priority.

the problem is made worse by some of the lax attitude towards law enforcement coming out of Olympia because crime has been, drug policy has been so lax.

Coming from Olympia, we've become a drug superhighway so that drugs come up through Washington and then go out, across the plains.

So, we do need to have an all government approach to dealing with this issue.

It starts at the border.

But in our communities, you know, we need to look at demand reduction.

We have too many Americans, too easily using drugs.

If you look at what Montana did with the Montana Meth project, where they brought down, meth consumption, we need to start educating folks on how dangerous fentanyl is.

there are so many families.

I'm sure you in the audience know family members who have lost loved ones, because of this scourge.

And every time I walk to work, almost every day and every time I see somebody lighten up, I just think about what a lost life and what can we do to help that person.

Thank you, Miss Conroy.

Fentanyl is a terrible scourge, and it built upon the opioid epidemic that happened for three years before that because the pharma pharmaceutical company lied to to federal administrators, to doctors, to their patients, and said that OxyContin was not as as addictive as natural opioids were.

And we know now that they lied about that.

And so part of what we need to do is hold pharmaceutical companies responsible.

And anybody else who's been who's put that poison out into our systems and created this hellish system of addictions and addiction that people who are injured in the job or in an accident and, and find themselves hurt.

So making, subsidized health health care available, including substance addiction treatment and access to to deal with the habits that come with that so that people can get the care that they need, as well as stopping the flow of the drugs.

Mr. Baumgartner 30s.

Well, you know, I worked on a counter narcotics team in Helmand Province in Afghanistan.

a opioid.

We were working on opium poppies.

there was the highest poppy and growing region in the world is also where I met my wonderful wife, Eleanor.

And we now have five kids.

But, you know, I do have a bit of a background here.

that's at the other end of the opium production.

You know, here.

I just can't say enough how much we have to solve that border issue.

because, this fentanyl is probably the biggest problem that we have in our communities right now.

And it's getting worse, miss Khan.

Right.

30s.

In other parts of the United States, we've seen effective treatment programs.

Unfortunately, here in eastern Washington, our fentanyl addiction crisis is not dropping as it is in other communities.

I think we should look around, see what other folks are using, use those best practices and apply them as quickly as possible.

And yes, we absolutely need to pass a bipartisan border security bill so that we can stop fentanyl from coming into our country.

Thank you.

We will turn now to closing statements.

Miss Conroy, having won the coin toss, you will go first.

I apologize.

Thank you for reminding me, Mr. Baumgartner.

You'll be going first.

Well, it's just thank you so much for this great debate and for you being here.

You know, the times in my life, where I've felt, the most rewarding is when I've felt like I'm doing something bigger than myself.

That's how I felt.

when I graduated, you and I decided to do that volunteer work in Mozambique with the Jesuits.

That's how I felt when I left my private sector career to go to Iraq, when America was struggling overseas, and how I felt when I was in the state Senate.

It's been absolute honor in the last 14 years, to be a public servant for you.

together we've done things like the new medical school, brought a science building to eastern, finally got funding for the North south freeway.

And as your treasurer, I've enjoyed educating folks on, taxes.

And, I've had more town halls, I think, than any elected official.

If you do give me the honor of being your, your next member of Congress, I'm dedicated to transparency.

I'll try to have a town hall, every month.

And I promise you, I'll work in a bipartisan fashion for the big problems that are facing America.

it's an honor and a privilege, to live in this great nation.

And it would be an absolute honor to be your next member of Congress, Miss Conroy.

My apologies.

Now it is your turn.

No problem.

Right.

Thanks very much.

And I appreciate the audience looking out for me.

I was just going to go ahead and go.

It's it's a very heady experience to be up on this stage and this this entire process.

It's I grew up in the Spokane Valley.

Blue collar kid.

Never, ever dreamed that I would be on a stage like this.

But I had the the honor and the privilege of representing the people of the state of Washington in district court and juvenile courts here in Spokane County for four years, almost.

I had the the great honor and privilege of representing the people of the United States of America in the government of the United States, at home and abroad for 24 years, none of almost 30 years of service.

Never did I ask whose parties served.

How does that how does that benefit one party another?

I focus was always on finding the best solutions and common sense challenge to common sense.

Common sense solutions to our common challenges.

And I would love to go to Washington, D.C. and do that for my home district.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

That will be it for tonight's debate.

I'd like to thank the candidates, the audience and the viewing public for participating in our democracy and remind everyone that ballots will be sent out in the coming days.

Please remember to register to vote.

Thank you again and good night.